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Evangelists and the Reason Rally, Second Epistle June 2, 2016

Posted by Ubi Dubium in Events, Rants, Responses.
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Continuing on with all the things I wanted to say to Ray Comfort’s god squad that was supposed to show up at the Reason Rally to save our souls and stuff.

Ubi Dubium’s Second Epistle to the Evangelists

“OK, now Mr. Preacher I’d like to talk about the content of some of your preaching, but probably not in the way you expect.

“You’ve probably spent a lot of time learning all kinds of apologetics.  Endless arguments against evolution, and lots of arguments for the existence of god that go along the lines of “first cause” and “everything can’t come from nothing” and so on.  You’re prepared to go into those arguments at great length, and expect me to spend a lot of time rebutting you on them.

“Well, I’m not going to bother doing that.  Surprised?

“Let’s look at the bigger picture here.  Suppose that by some really amazing insight you were able to show that evolution wasn’t happening, and that it’s not responsible for the diversity of life on earth.  Well then SO WHAT?  All you would have done is get us back to a position of “I don’t know”.  And if you understand the fallacy of the argument from ignorance, you’ll see that “I don’t know” does not justify jumping to a conclusion of biblegod and Jesus and Noah’s ark and talking snakes.  You still need positive evidence to justify those beliefs, and knocking down evolution, or any other science you happen not to like, does nothing to establish the truth of your dogma.  You need positive evidence, not just an attack on what you see as the alternative.

“And let’s look at those “first cause” arguments.  “Something can’t come from nothing.”  “The universe is too fine-tuned not to have been designed on purpose” and so forth.  Suppose you were successful in making those arguments.  Again, SO WHAT?  The best you can do from winning all those arguments is a vague deism. But deism isn’t what you are trying to sell me on, is it?  Even if you establish that there had to have been some kind of mind behind the creation of the universe (which I’m not actually buying), you have done nothing to show that your religion is true.  Your creator god could be one that created the universe and then died, or left, or one that just  churns out universes all day and doesn’t care what happens to them, or one that became the universe instead of making it, or one that created the universe for some other purpose and we’re just a side effect, or any number of other possibilities.  Winning your “first cause” arguments still do nothing to get you to a conclusion of biblegod and Jesus and Noah’s ark and talking snakes.  “Look at the universe, therefore Jesus!” makes no more sense than “Look at the universe, therefore Muhammad!” or “Look at the universe, therefore Krishna!” or “Look at the universe, therefore the Flying Spaghetti Monster (pesto be upon Him)!”   If what you are presenting isn’t evidence that’s specific to what you are actually selling, then don’t even bother.

“And finally, Ray has probably taught you all kinds of rhetorical tricks to try to trick people into saying that they need god:  “Have you ever lied?  Have you ever stolen anything?  Then you’re a liar and a thief!  And therefore a SINNER!”  I have two things to say about that.  First, any god that would need his preachers to trick people into belief is a pretty pitiful god in my book.  And second, Mr. Preacher, have you ever lied about anything?  I bet you have!  And you know what that makes you?  A LIAR!  You’ve learned your craft from Ray Comfort, and I’ve certainly heard him tell lies.  And if you believed that you could bring somebody to Jesus and save them from the eternal fires of Hell by lying to them, would you do it?  I bet you would!    In which case, Mr. Preacher, that makes you a liar for Jeezus who is not entitled to be up on that soapbox.  Get off that high horse, knock it off with the clever trickery, and actually talk to us and pay attention to what we have to say.  Find out why it is we don’t believe your message, even though we live in a country saturated with it.   Listen before you talk.

Thus endeth the Second Epistle.

(Stay tuned, still more to come.)


1. Juana Mann - June 2, 2016

Here is a thought – did you ever think your extreme atheism can be just as overbearing to others as extreme christianity is to you? If a protester is in your face with apologetics, that’s one thing, knock yourself out defending your stance. But other than that, your diatribe is just as preachy, just on the other end of the scale. I would run from both extremists just as quickly.


Ubi Dubium - June 2, 2016

This kind of thing from me is only ever in response to an in-your-face overbearing preacher. Usually the “knock on your door” or “shout at people on the streetcorner” type (or the pushy fundamentalist brother-in-law). I never invade other people’s private spaces with this, and most people who know me personally don’t even know I’m an atheist. You won’t find me talking about this in their church, or at their rallies. I prefer to leave them alone. And I wish they would leave me alone! But if I’m accosted by a preacher, I will push back. If you’ve ever listened to Ray Comfort’s shtick, you’ll know what I’m pushing back against in this case.

But how is “I don’t believe you” an overbearing thing? How is “I don’t buy it” an extremist position? Believers are so used to belief as a default that they characterize somebody being willing to say “I don’t believe this” and say it out loud as “militant”. I just see it as “not being a doormat” the way they want.

Liked by 1 person

2. Sir TJ - June 3, 2016

Well I’ve never had an atheist knock on my door to share the truth with me. I have had Christians do that. I’ve never tried to talk my religious relatives into changing their minds. They have talked to me about changing mine. I’ve never has an atheist missionary stick their hand through my open car window to stop me so I have to listen to him. I have had a Mormon missionary do that. I’ve never had an atheist tell me he is one hoping that will get him lower bail. I have had numerous people claiming to Christian do that (part of my job is setting bail for people who’ve just been arrested). I’ve never had an atheist attack me for my behavior being unatheist. I’ve had numerous Christians do that.

So; Juana, I don’t see the equivalence at all.

Liked by 1 person


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